Interview: Joe DiPietro on Creating SINATRA THE MUSICAL for the West End

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'I always say God is a terrible dramaturg'

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After a run in Birmingham in 2023, Sinatra: The Musical , written by Joe DiPietro , will make its London debut in June at the Shaftesbury Theatre. Directed and choreographed by Kathleen Marshall , the musical focuses on not only Sinatra [ Joel Harper-Jackson ], but his first wife, Nancy Sinatra [ Phoebe Panaretos ], and Ava Gardner [Ana Villafañe], his second wife.

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Recently, we had the chance to speak with DiPietro about Sinatra before its run on the West End. We discussed what made him want to create a musical about Frank Sinatra , how this show compares to Diana: The Musical and some of the conversations he’s had with one of Sinatra’s daughters, Tina Sinatra !

How did you first get started in the world of theatre?

I grew up in New Jersey, right outside of New York. And my folks would always take us to see a Broadway show once a year as a treat. This was in the 1970s, so the first show I ever saw was 1776 - the original production! The lights came up on the Continental Congress, and I was like, “I don't know what this is, but I need to be a part of this.” So I got hooked at a very young age, and I just kept going to theatre.

What makes a writer become a writer is probably an age-old question, but I just started writing. In high school, I would write all sorts of short stories and poetry and that type of thing, but also short plays, and that was what seemed more natural to me, because I'd seen so many shows, and by then I had gotten into the library and taken out all the plays. So theatre never seemed like studying or work for me. It was always just something I enjoyed, and then I just thought, “I'm going to be a writer. I'm going to be a playwright.” And I just dove in headfirst!

And what made you want to be a part of Sinatra ?

Well, I'm Italian American, and my grandfather was actually from Italy, so I grew up with Frank Sinatra music playing all the time in their house. We'd go to my grandmother's home every Sunday for dinner, and she had two pictures cut out from Life Magazine tacked onto her kitchen wall - one was the Pope, and one was Frank Sinatra .

The importance of Frank Sinatra to Italian Americans of that generation cannot be underestimated. He really was the embodiment of the American dream. Italians, when my grandparents were coming of age, were really looked down upon and thought of as dirty and only good for physical labour. Italy, like so many countries, was very impoverished then, and there were food shortages and all sorts of things. So when America, the land of opportunity, welcomed them, they came and they struggled. They were put at the bottom of society. Frank Sinatra 's parents were very similar to that, but they worked their way up, and their son suddenly became this American icon. So to be able to write about Frank Sinatra and work with Tina Sinatra . . . As soon as I got a phone call asking if I would be interested, I immediately said, “Yes, I'm your person. Don't ask anyone else. I know this world.” And that's how I got started!

Can you tell us a bit about your creative process, specifically for Sinatra ?

When I got the call about writing the show, I had to meet with Tina Sinatra , Frank's youngest daughter, and one of the producers of our show. I pitched my ideas, and I had to write an outline before they hired me.

I met Tina and some of the producers at La Dolce Vita, a restaurant where Frank Sinatra used to hang out. We sat in the Frank Sinatra booth, and they were playing Frank Sinatra music. And that was my introduction to Tina. I was so comfortable in that milieu, and I knew how that generation of Italians thought and spoke, what their hopes and dreams were. So Tina and I immediately hit it off, and we became fast friends. And then, every Monday [...] I would drive up to LA and go to Tina's house, and she would tell me tales about her dad. So I was furiously writing and recording, and that's really how it started!

So what part of Sinatra's life is this story that you're telling?

We didn't want to do a womb-to-tomb bio - he lived a relatively long, long life. What we had decided early on was doing the part where he was king of the Bobby-Soxers. At 27-years-old, he was one of the most popular singers in America. And then the war ended, and musical taste changed. He was very liberal at that point of his life, and the press was very conservative - they turned against him. And then he left his wife, his high school sweetheart, the mother of his children, for the movie goddess Ava Gardner . The press and the gossip columnists really came after him. They thought that was so sinful. He had presented himself as the boy next door, and suddenly, he was running off, leaving his wife and kids.

He lost his career. And by the end of the 1940s, he very famously lost his record contract, his movie contract, his TV contract. And then in 1952, he had the greatest comeback in show business history, when he begged his way onto the set of the film From Here to Eternity , and wound up winning an Oscar. And he met the great orchestrator Nelson Riddle , and they started to create the concept albums that really are the music that we know from Sinatra. So it really is about the period from 1943 to 1953. It's just ten years! It's starting at the top, losing it all and then rising higher than anyone ever imagined.

What has it been like returning to Sinatra after its run back in 2023 in Birmingham?

It's been great because we've been working on the show. We had a very successful out-of-town in Birmingham, and we learned a lot. We did two readings of it since then, and it's been great, because you get to fix things. Anyone who's worked with me will say I'm a big rewriter. I'm like, “Oh, let me try this! Let me try that!” And sometimes our director, Kathleen Marshall , will say, “Stop. Don't rewrite anymore. It's fine, it's working.” So it's been really joyful, and it's a very committed group of artists all around who I really love the show and this unique story we're telling about Frank that most people don't know.

Even though it's a full-fledged musical with 22 songs, it seems like a play with music, because it's really about these people. This love triangle between Frank, Ava Gardner and Nancy, his first wife, is the emotional centre. They’re adults dealing with adult problems in a very honest way, and this music expresses all of their joys and disappointments and hopes and fears.

You've spoken a lot with Tina Sinatra in the making of Sinatra . Do you have any favourite stories that she shared about Frank?

Tina said to me very recently, watching the show of these events that happened when she was a child, that this was the first time she understood the adult implications of the events. She goes, “I saw from this perspective, and then I read about it, but I've never seen it dramatised and dramatised in a two-hour show. I understand what they went through now as an adult.” It explained a lot to her. I told her from the beginning, “To me, this show will be a success if you love it - that's really what I want. Because this is your life.” [...] that understanding of her father that she's gotten from this just fascinates me. This might sound a little trite, but I'm almost happy to be able to have given that to her.

With dramatisation, how do you balance the truth of the story versus making it a work of theatre?

I always say God is a terrible dramaturg. Our lives aren't laid out perfectly - we have ups and downs, and we don't always get the ending we deserve. So what you have to do with life? I always go back to the great Pablo Picasso quote that, “Art is a lie that makes us realise truth.” I think that's really true - you have to get what the truth of the matter is, what you're saying, and then take the basic truth of the story and create it around that.

And in this instance, I found that, like other biomusical and bioplays I've written, not everything was documented like it is today, so a lot of it is hearsay. A lot of it is just quotes from journalists or rumours. There's different perspectives from everyone on these stories.

So I read the Ava Gardner ’s autobiography and biographies.I told Tina, “Okay, I know a lot about Frank, but before I read anything else about him, I just want to hear your version of the events,” which she told me. And then she told me to read a book by Earl Wilson , who was a very big gossip columnist of the day. He knew Frank and wrote a really good bio of him, including about these events.

I feel like a sculptor. You have this big block of clay, the story in the centre, and you have to keep chipping away at all the information around it to get to a story that is a compelling narrative that reveals the largest truth. because then what you also have to do is, unlike a movie, is you know, you have To cut characters. You have to scale it down to write a two-hour show that also has room for music.

What do you hope audiences take away from Sinatra ?

The music and Kathleen Marshall 's choreography and direction and the design and the performances by everyone are just so thrilling that they're going to get a very full, joyful, revealing musical experience. It's a really full evening out, and I think they're going to learn about the man behind the songs in a way that's honest and complicated, and isn't just a whitewashing of facts, but actually explores the man's complications.

And a lot of men will relate to Frank, because he really is dealing with a lot of the issues that men deal. He certainly had a lot of affairs. I found going into that stuff really interesting, because all of the women in his life, including people he had one-night stands with, as much as I've read about him, they don't say anything bad about him - he was clearly a gentleman.

And finally, how would you describe Sinatra in one word?

Joyful. There are dramatic moments, there are comic moments, there are moments that break your heart. But ultimately, this music is so deeply felt and brilliant. And as I said, the work of Kathleen and the other folks working on the show is just so top-notch that I just feel, by the end, you've really had an experience. You've learned about someone you thought you knew - and maybe you didn't!

Like any great artist, his legacy is his work, and that work has brought joy to people for decades now, and will still be making people happy when we’re gone. So I think Sinatra is going to be a joyful experience for most theatre goers.

Sinatra The Musical runs from 3 June at the Aldwych Theatre

Main Photo Credit: Bruce Gilkas

New rehearsal photos and footage have been released from the West End premiere of Sinatra The Musical, the new musical based on the life and career of the legendary artist and cultural icon. Check out the video and photos here!

Olivier Award winner Jenna Russell joins the full cast of SINATRA THE MUSICAL, set to begin performances June 3, 2026 at London's Aldwych Theatre, featuring over 20 Sinatra hits.

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_Originally reported by [BroadwayWorld](https://www.broadwayworld.com/westend/article/Interview-He-Was-Clearly-A-Gentleman-Writer-Joe-DiPietro-on-SINATRA-THE-MUSICAL-20260528)._