Rosco P. Coldchain & Nicholas Craven Discuss New Album, Collaborating, and Mainstream vs. Underground

Back in 2002, Rosco P. Coldchain had a couple scene-stealing features on the Clipse’s debut album Lord Willin ‘ where the then young North Philly rapper held his own next to guys like Jadakiss , Styles P and Ab-Liva on the tracks “Cot Damn” and “I’m Not You,” before his promising career was cut short due to legal troubles. He was signed to Pharrell’s Star Trak imprint and was supposed to drop his debut Hazardous Life , but it was eventually shelved after the subsidiary left Arista for Interscope during the early 2000s. Then in 2008, he was arrested for his connection to a fatal shooting (he still maintains his innocence) and spent the next 14 years in prison.

Now, back home for about three or four years, Coldchain is picking up where he left off. He’s dropped music since being back outside, but fans got excited when it was announced that he would be doing a tape completely produced by underground darling Nicholas Craven, whose distinct sound has become a fixture in that scene, and has led to critically acclaimed projects with Boldy James, Tha God Fahim and Ransom. The Montreal producer’s penchant for finding and flipping unique samples into loops is the perfect backdrop for the North Philly rapper’s oft-kilter reality raps, and their most recent tape certainly didn’t disappoint. Featuring Malcolm Kamal, Jimmie D, Bruiser Wolf and Ab-Liva, Play With Something Safe puts ‘Sco’s elite lyrical ability and Craven’s versatility on full display.

We caught up with the dynamic duo over Zoom a couple weeks ago to talk about their new found chemistry, Rosco’s journey to get to this point, their process and the importance of being independent during the digital era.

Check out our convo below.

Rosco , I watched an interview you did that went up a couple days ago. You were saying that you’ve been working to get to this point since you came home about three and a half years ago. Can you talk about that journey? Because you were putting out music here and there.

Rosco P. Coldchain: I was, but I don’t think it was landing quite how I needed it to land — simply because, to be honest, I think a lot of people just didn’t know I was here. And so outside of them not knowing I was here, I was still trying to come up with a real sound. And so, long story short, couple of my comrades kept bringing up Nic Craven. I wasn’t super acclimated on how many artists and things of that nature, but I was familiar with the sound, and so I reached out and told him, “Hey, bro, I like you a lot. Can we work?” And the rest is history.

When you say sound, do you mean production wise?

R.P.C.: Yeah, in terms of the production because when I come home, I experimented it a little bit, and in all actuality, I liked all the stuff that I did. But I do know that people wanted to hear me with a specific type of sound and a specific kind of producer and he fit the mold.

I was gonna bring up that people were introduced to you through Pharrell and Craven’s style may not be as unorthodox as Pharrell’s was during that time…

R.P.C.: I feel like it, though.

It’s unorthodox in a different way. It’s soul samples and loops while you’re kind of riffing like a jazz musician.

R.P.C.: No doubt, because that’s the uniqueness of what Nick has. He does what we’re accustomed to in terms of sampling soulful sounds, right? What we’re not accustomed to is hearing it by itself and having someone rap over that, as is. He created a lane. So, my whole thought process was, “I want to be the best at this f–king lane, period.” I want to be the most proficient guy he’s worked with in that lane, and that’s who this album is.

You still in Philly?

R.P.C.: I don’t live in Philly, but yeah.

How’s it been being back home, man?

R.P.C.: Well, my son’s prom was yesterday, so I’ve been blessed to be able to see my kids graduate and go off to prom and things like that. So, I think that’s the biggest blessing out of all this s—t. I’m seeing my kids do the things I ain’t never do.

How did you react when Rosco first reached out?

Nicholas Craven: I think the first thing I did was hit up Jimmie D and was like, “Yo, guess who f—king just hit me up.” I wasn’t just familiar with Rosco, I was a fan. He didn’t have a lot of songs that I knew of, but the ones… I thought this guy was gonna be the next big thing, and then everything happened. I remember playing “I’ma Kill This” and “Box Full of Bullets.” That’s the name, right?

R.P.C.: Yeah, “Box Full of Bullets.” Hit-Boy did that.

N.C.: I just remember getting those joints off LimeWire and having them in my iPod. Growing up as a French kid in Canada, I didn’t have a lot of friends that were too knowledgeable about hip-hop, so Rosco was one of those guys that was like “my guy” that nobody else knew ,that I would listen to and I would try to put homies on, and it was too advanced for them. And I’d be like, “F–k you guys, I’m playing this s—t myself.” It’s kind of like a new version of what I did with Ransom when he came of retirement and we did something — but this is even more extreme, because Rosco didn’t retire, he got taken out of the game.

So to have the opportunity to be the guy to, not only bring him back in a way and give him the soundscape he needs to do what he needs to do, but also kind of do his first….This is your first acclaimed project since being back I think, right? Because it’s not your first project since getting out, but I feel like this has some real legs on it.

R.P.C.: Yeah, yeah, without a doubt.

It fired up the audience that you have. I mean, you’re talking to Billboard because of it.

N.C.: Exactly. And me, as a fan — it’s kind of an interesting thing — but like as a fan, the main goal was to make Rosco apart of this scene, so that other rappers and producers want to work with him. He’s now part of the ecosystem of this scene that needs good rappers like him to keep thriving. So to add a new guy into this scene, to bring back a rapper that I love, there’s so many things that this album is accomplishing that just bring me so much pride and so much joy.

It’s funny to say, because, you know, as a fan, I almost wish somebody else did this instead of me, because I can’t enjoy the album as much as any other person because I’m so invested in it. I can’t really listen to it with the ears of a fan as much. I want this to end up getting him a Pete Rock tape, or a Daringer or a Roc Marciano one. Then I’ll be have new songs to put on my iTunes that I can actually listen to. That’s the ultimate goal.

Rosco, you said something interesting in this other interview I was watching where you mentioned that there’s no underground anymore. But guys like Craven, the Alchemist, Westside, Marci built up this ecosystem outside of the mainstream where their independent and making a living. So I’m interested in how you’ve been able to adapt because before you got locked up, you essentially needed a deal to get on.

R.P.C.: I feel like I was always a hustler, so that was the first thing to understand. Hurry up and wait is not an option because when I came home, you know, you kind of expect certain s—t, right? You kind of expect certain people to do certain things, and when it’s not done a lot of people who come home, they kind of digress and revert back to old behaviors. My whole thing was understanding that the independent market was the place for me, because I like to be my own boss. I like to put out my own music at its own price, and I want to feel that my art is appreciated by the people that truly appreciate my art.

A lot of these labels, they’re just doing a job, so you ain’t nothing but a budget. And they’ll give it to you like they’re helping and all of these different things, but it’s only up until the point that your s—t fails, when you realize and you’re like, “Yo, I need help. Remember I’m the guy that you took the $20,000 from on the budget, right?” And these guys look at you and wave you off, that’s when you understand like, “Oh, this s—t was just music.” So, the people that I do things with now — not saying that in the sense of business, that it isn’t that — but I still can gauge who are good people to deal with. I’m more experienced and seasoned now. So, I just want all my money and that’s just real simple. [ Laughs. ]

Do you feel like you’re making up for lost time?

R.P.C.: I feel like I’m an act of revenge, if you want to be totally honest. I never got my shot how I was supposed to get it, and then by the time that I felt like I was getting some type of hold in 2011, where I started going up to New York City and seeing Premier and doing records and stuff like that, I went to jail. Because you got to remember, before I went to jail, my deal was f–ked up over at Star Trek/Interscope. It was a lot of s—t going on.

N.C.: Yeah, the Arista s—t closing down.

R.P.C.: The Arista s—t fell, then we merged with Interscope, who had a s—tload of problems going on over there, and I was signed to a f–ked-up deal. And so once we got to that understanding, it was kind of too late. I was still trying to hold on and maintain my name. I gotta still keep going, you know? So, I’m calling DJ Premier, I’m calling certain people in the industry — Steven Victor, who was an intern at that time. I’m talking to these guys regularly, like, “Yo, I gotta get out of this situation, because Philly’s gonna kill me.” Then I don’t think they understood that it was that serious until it happened.

And it’s funny how people will help you once you’re in a f–ked-up jam — but when you’re out of the jam and you’re asking them for help, nobody seeing it. And it’s just like, “I’m over this industry” s—t. So, I found a real guy in Nic.

This might be the perfect era for a rapper like you.

R.P.C.: Perfect for me, bro.

N.C.: The way I see it is that it used to be that the underground and the mainstream were two different places, like physical locations almost. It was like, you’re either signed and you’re in the stores and they’re selling your CDs, or you’re not signed and you’re going hand-to-hand out the trunk, and you might blow up. You might become C-Rayz Walz or Non Phixion, or MF DOOM, but you’re not mainstream, right? And there were people in the underground, they were kind of trying to do a mainstream sound, and there was people in the mainstream like Wu-Tang that first brought the underground grimy basement grimy mixtape sound to a commercial audience, right? And that’s the old school.

But now, it’s not two locations anymore. We’re all on streaming, we’re all in the same stores, we’re all in the same place. So today, mainstream and underground are two different mentalities. It’s two different artistic approaches, and it’s two different business approaches. Everybody I know in Montreal, none of them are known, none of them are very popular, but they’re all trying to do commercial music, and they’re not doing anything with it. Whereas me, I’m doing underground music, but I’m doing my thing, you know? It’s literally just a different hustle. Before, if you were mainstream, you were making more money than the underground. Today, you can work the underground to make more money than an artist that’s doing mainstream music.

R.P.C.: And that’s because, if you think about it, the labels have infiltrated so much on the dollar point of every artist that it’s essentially… you can never be able to get a really good deal from a label unless you’re already doing something. They want you to already be doing numbers before they even invest, and by that time I’m already making the money I’m supposed to make! All I need is $30,000-$40,000 and I’ll be a millionaire. It’s no more label. You’re your label.

With the advent of social media and the Internet, it’s much easier to go direct to consumer. You rather have engaged fans that are going to go to your shows, buy your vinyls and buy your merch because you’re not making anything from streaming.

N.C.: Yeah, exactly. Back in the days it’s either you’re on the label and they’re selling yo

_Originally reported by [Billboard](https://www.billboard.com/music/rb-hip-hop/rosco-p-coldchain-nicholas-craven-interview-1236252714/)._